bjdbaby? Probably not legit, but asking just in case...

[happyknot]

So what's the difference between buying a $200 BJD clone and a $2 Dollar Store Clone of a doll you like?

One is a direct recast of an artist made item and it hurts small business that usually consists of less than 20 workers. The other is not a direct recast but a simple "looks similar to" of an item that was cheaply and machine manufactured in vast numbers.

The dolls in this hobby are hand molded, hand painted - they are expensive to make in both material and man hours. They have limited or very small releases.

Ddung dolls for example was designed first but then machine molded, created in an assembly line. It's face is stamped on. The numbers are almost unlimited and the designers are being funded by a larger corporation. Their product range doesn't stop at just dolls either but ranges in to stationary, clothing etc.

The Ddung knock-offs at dollarstores are not exact recasts they are only look-a-likes. The head shape is similar but the face paint isn't exact and it is usually all on top of a body from a completely different doll. It's different enough that it is a different doll and not a Ddung.

I can see how hypocritical it seems for buying no-name grocery items, or look-a-likes but buying a legal knock off is not the same as buying an illegal copy of someone's art.

[Dirili]

Ok, I just HAVE to add one thing because this has been bothering me a lot.

Just because an item, be it a doll, or a game or a movie, is produced by a larger or more successful company, does NOT mean that there weren't people that worked very hard on it.

An example that relates to me:
In the meshing community on IMVU, there is a handful of people who use illegal software to rip meshes from video games or from other developers and sell copies of them on IMVU as if it were their own product. You can only file a DMCA to have one of these stolen meshes removed if you are the owner of the original mesh. So there are tons of meshes ripped from Final Fantasy games, Kingdom Hearts, Lineage II, etc. etc.

Many people feel that this doesn't hurt anyone. However... the job of "game developer" has been cited in articles as one of the most overworked and underpaid positions out there. It's extremely stressful and a lot of hours go into it. The artists get listed in the credits, but who recognizes these people? So many artists go into one project that no one really gets the credit that they deserve. Then after all that, they don't even have the rights to their own work, so even if they do find their own work being pirated out there they can't even file the DMCA's themselves. They need to rely on EA or Nintendo or whoever to do it for them, and believe me, after much much urging these companies to protect their work, they don't give a damn and never lift a finger to do anything about it, even if they SAY that they care.

Just imagine... you put in 60 hours of work a week for however long it takes to get the project done, (and believe me... creating 3D meshes, painting, physiquing and animating them is froth with many difficulties and annoyances). You feel the pride of being able to work on such a big famous project, but no one knows who you are or what you did. People pirate the game you worked on left and right and your artwork is stolen and sold in various markets and you can't even do anything about it. You got paid for the hours you put in on the project and that's all you get.

This applies to just about any product though. There were still artists and craftsmen that made the originals and people who work on the manufacturing and they work just as hard and are just as human and deserving as artists who work in smaller circles with a smaller staff. I'm really sick of people belittling the work that the unknown artists do.

What I'm getting at is that really pirating dolls is no better and no worse than pirating movies, music and other items.

[zirconmermaid]

If you want an Unoa, just get a faceplate relatively cheap (http://noppin.ocnk.net/) and get a different brand body . Oh, and a custom headback by Buff or Amaeta.

That still won't be cheaper than buying the recast. The price point and the dolls match to the original is what makes the recasts so tempting.

It isn't that Unoa is limited. The doll is just produced briefly perhaps once or twice a year. It can only be bought from the company through a shopping service. So people charge $200 or more on top of what they payed for the doll on the second hand market. After seeing so many go for $800 to $1000 on the marketplace despite stains and chips around the joints and even unfinished or improper assembly - it's little wonder anyone would be willing to buy a recast.

I am pretty sure that Unoa isn't a "company" as in lots of people. I think it's closer to Kiki-chan78. One person, who is doing all the work. The actual doll is amazing in terms of jointing and design, and I think it's worth the money. Having watched Gerald make his doll, and Kiki doing only part of Allison, the amount of time needed is staggering. The artist/caster is making way less than minimum wage on each doll produced. After about 20-25 dolls you need to remake the molds. It can take two or more years just to make the original doll and get it ready for final casting. The people who do the knockoffs haven't spent that time. Their activities can mean the difference to the original maker of the doll - maybe even leading to that sculptor no longer producing dolls. And that would be very sad.

When it comes to mass produced (eg Barbie) clones, the companies do stop the ones that are direct copies. Juku Couture copied Obitsu - they were caught and made to significantly change the dolls. Since major manufacturers are larger they have the resources to do this. Unfortunately, small BJD companies may not be able to and suffer. It is possible to get that "grail" doll - even at an affordable price - if you are patient. I know, I've done it. I know they aren't recasts because I got them from the original owners in the original packing.

[kittyasauras]

What did the Juku Couture dolls copy from Obitsu? Their heads look similar to the Nano-Haruko, but it's still different and the 'new' versions of them (to me) still looked the same just with boring normal colors.

[zirconmermaid]

What did the Juku Couture dolls copy from Obitsu? Their heads look similar to the Nano-Haruko, but it's still different and the 'new' versions of them (to me) still looked the same just with boring normal colors.

You have correctly identified the copy! It's the nano-Haruka head all right, and the revised heads are similar but not identical.

[kiki-chan78]

Jumping back into this. Yep, one of the reasons that Unoa is only produced a few times a year... is because there's pretty much only ONE person making those dolls. An order period is opened up, several orders are taken, and then closed in order to FILL the orders. That's how I'd probably do it if I weren't going through JS.

I will also point out, profit margin on dolls? It really sucks. In order to make my dolls a viable business, in addition to going to a casting company, I'm going to have to bring my prices up from where I'd originally wanted them. I wanted to keep them at $300, but I can't live with that profit margin. Yes, if my dolls were ever copied, it would impact me really hard. -_-;;;

-Kiki-chan78.

[kittyasauras]

What did the Juku Couture dolls copy from Obitsu? Their heads look similar to the Nano-Haruko, but it's still different and the 'new' versions of them (to me) still looked the same just with boring normal colors.

You have correctly identified the copy! It's the nano-Haruka head all right, and the revised heads are similar but not identical.

I found a photo collection here if anyone else is interested:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/superqt/42 ... 203710918/

I dunno, they look the same to me, just with different hair/make-up/eyes/clothes. I think they look different enough from haruko, just a lot of 'inspired from'.

[knittnkitten]

I think we all get that buying bootlegs is bad.

[happyknot]

I think we all get that buying bootlegs is bad.

lol! This post made my morning.

[OkamiKodomo]

I think we're all just discussing our personal feelings on bootlegs at this point. Yes, we all agree they're bad, and there are many ways that they hurt the original company/artist. But as I said in my other post, it boils down to what an individual is able to sleep with. I personally would never buy a recast of any doll still available, even in limited numbers (such as Unoa). I would wait until I could buy one during the short time it's for sale. I wouldn't be able to enjoy a recast doll that I could've gotten from the original artist. But for a doll that has been discontinued, and now commands double, triple, or even quadruple the original price, for even a damaged item... to me, that's more disgusting than buying a bootleg doll. In the case of the site that sparked this conversation, I would feel less bad about buying from them, than I would buying a ridiculously overpriced secondhand doll. I also won't condemn someone for buying a recast doll, within reason. If you're the sort of person that goes 'lolololyou're so stupid paying full price lookit my recast its just as good' then yes, I am going to look down my nose at you. Not for owning or even buying a recast, but for your attitude about it. You've done something wrong, and know it, and gloat about it. But if you really just wanted something pretty to play with or look at, and couldn't afford the real thing, then I really can't fault you for that. If I ever bought a bootleg doll, knowingly or unknowingly, I would love them just as much as my other dolls. And I'm going to hit submit on this post, and cross my fingers that it won't inspire a shitstorm.