Udder Randomness

[victoriavictrix]

Sigh yeah - trying to argue science to widely-read non-scientists is difficult. Good job I didn't mention that I've actually visited a nuclear power station, that would probably have cemented my crazy status. It was about a week after Fukishima happened actually... The sense of resigned doom about jobs was obvious, but the visit was fascinating - we were stood in the pool room where the spent fuel rods were stored, and it was perfectly safe not 1 meter above the level of the water (if you were to fall in however that was another matter!)

I am very anti-OLD-style (Fukishima) nuke, and the completely unsafe ways that the spent fuel rods were stored. (Come on, double the safe capacity IN AN EARTHQUAKE ZONE????). But the proposed new reactors are a hundred times safer. What is needed is a safe storage system or a way to recycle the spent fuel rods. And one of the most virulent Green (and highly educated) anti-nuke campaigners reversed his stance a couple years ago over the new designs. The old plants must be replaced and there must be a better way of dealing with the spent fuel. For that, I am totally on board.

[Vetinari]

Yeah agree with you on the storage issues, Fukishima was a dinosaur long before it went so horribly wrong! The mismanagement of that site is a bit boggling tbh. Switzerland has a brilliant storage system in the works, involving glass contaiment in copper drums and underground facilities in geologically stable regions. Unfortunately the main issue there is cost - I highly doubt most politicians these days would risk their careers by signing off on such an expensive (both monetary and in terms of public support) endeavour, even though most countries with nuclear plants sorely need it. Hell the UK processes other countries nuclear waste for them, we need these facilities and soon!

[yarwel]

There's definitely room for improvement in safety, but just about anything has to be less toxic than coal. You know they store the toxic byproducts of coal mining in outdoor concrete ponds? They are connected to the river systems, so if(read "when") the containment walls break it poisons the water supply.

[Vetinari]

Thank you! Exactly an argument I tried to make before I was shouted down earlier this evening; we breathe in so much radioactie crud that is a direct result of the coal mining industry; probably a far higher percentage than anything emitted from the nuclear industry. And to be frank that black film that coats everything nowadays is probably far more toxic than trace radiation from properly managed nuclear sites. Though Fukishima is an ongoing disaster I'm still of the opinion that the modern nuclear industry has a far better safety record than most of it's competitors. Anyhooow I should really stop thinking about this and go back to daydreaming about bjds...

[knittnkitten]

actually alot of the power plants are going to natural gas, and the coal mines are shutting down.

[Vetinari]

In Britain they're pretty much extinct, the mines mostly shut around Thatcher's era, since we'd dug out most of the coal! But I think the general point about the fossil fuel industry holds true.

The samesuch people saying no so emphatically to Nuclear Energy, also have much to say about the process of Frakking. (Which is now being seriously considered in the UK due to the public's fear of nuclear amongst other things - sigh) However they fail to offer usable alternatives; whilst protesting against the wind farms going up next door... and having no real concept of the fact that most renewables really can't be scaled up that much more with the technology remaining as it currently is (and of course most research funding is going into new oil/gas sources) And somehow I'm sure they'd protest the flooding of large areas inland to create a hydroelectric dam, and likely sneer at the countries that actually do so despite hydroelectric being the most viable renewable currently available. (Sadly wind power just isn't reliable, solar panels have a nasty tendency to fail after a few thousand cycles, and both currently rely heavily on energy intensive rare earths, which are difficult to refine and well make the whole energy in -> energy out ratios questionable at the moment, which of course the oil companies love. No idea why why geothermal is just not very popular, I'm guessing it's hard to set up?)

Right and stop - I'm overthinking all sorts of things at the moment! Methinks it's a sign that I need a fulltime job asap!

[knittnkitten]

geothermal is pretty expensive to put up, so its probably the startup costs. *thinks windfarms are pretty cool*

[oniakki]

While I think they look pretty neat, I've actually been worried about wind farms destroying the climate (I have no actual proof, it's more a logical conclusion based on my rather poor grasp of physics). We're pulling energy out of the air... energy that's normally used for getting the air from point A to point B, meaning the air no longer quite reaches point B at the same time etc as before, causing potentially major climate shifts. I recall someplace... (10-15 years ago? O.o;;) there was a number of papers on how skyscrapers were negatively affecting the global wind patterns, how much are wind farms doing the same by slowing down the wind rather then diverting it? Though thinking about it diverting the wind also slows it down as a change in direction costs energy too. ^.^;;

Sadly I haven't come up with a solution to any of the problems in any of the power production systems.

[knittnkitten]

no... I'm pretty sure that's not how it works....

[DollyKim]

Can spent fuel rods be sent in to space and shot in to the sun?

As for wind farms I live near enough to the one outside of Palm Springs, it's in a natural wind tunnel along a freeway where no one wants to live, and it's doing fine. I think the only problem is keeping photographers out. If the wind is going to blow might as well use it. The only issues are when they get close to homes, not only can they make an annoying noise if there was an accident or a quake you don't want it falling over.

We also have some natural hot springs that would be good to harness for steam power. The water already comes out of the ground boiling hot, pass it through a turbine then let the spas have it.