MiroDoll Controversy

[Kirahfaye]

I don't think that anyone in this thread is witch hunting, Stormlight. No one is DOA bashing. These are valid concerns, though. Certainly people will have their own opinion(s) and that's a good thing - as long as we don't call each other out just because we don't agree.

Edit - Trust me, this isn't anything like the mess going on about Fairyland!

[victoriavictrix]

You don't have to agree with their decision, that's fine. But, friends or not, I think emailing them and dropping F-bombs and telling them their heads are up their asses wasn't the most ... I dunno ... mature or professional way that could have been handled?
.

Well aren't you just precious. *Looks for the "block" option.* *Finds it.* Buh bye.

[kenaiqueen]

Edit - Trust me, this isn't anything like the mess going on about Fairyland!

Oh no! I still haven't been able to afford the Chloe I want from Fairyland. Is what ever is going on going to put them out of business? (You can PM me if you prefer!)

[Kirahfaye]

Edit - Trust me, this isn't anything like the mess going on about Fairyland!

Oh no! I still haven't been able to afford the Chloe I want from Fairyland. Is what ever is going on going to put them out of business? (You can PM me if you prefer!)

No, but they have made significant changes within the company. Read the last 10 pages of the previous Minifee thread (it was just closed and a new one started) and the Fairyland FB page for specifics.

[Greyhaunt]

Sigh...once again such issues rear their ugly heads.

Let me go on record with the "official" opinion of this forum regarding the DOA ban and the reported copying of another company's body.

Not unlike gas, this too shall pass.

We won't be banning any dolls from Miro around here just because they may have copies another company's body style. Honestly, it's a human body - they are all kind of similar. Mirodoll makes a nice entry level doll for people who aren't wealthy enough to buy high end stuff. I don't think this mistake will ever impact the sales of whatever company they may or may not have copied and as they are said to have apologized and pulled the disputed items I see no problem. Copies happen - never met an artist who didn't start out copying in order to learn = everyone does it as part of the learning process. It's wrong when they sell it as their own, but as has been mentioned this issue was rectified.

It's not like they were just recasting someone else's stuff. That's another thing entirely and I do not condone it. But we won't go down that road here. well, not again....

If you have one of the questionable items from Miro no one here at management cares or plans on making any bans. Post to your heart's content. I don't even care if you announce that it's one of the pulled items - seriously, I'm comfortable enough that it's been well handled by Mirodoll so I've got no problems.

Regarding DOA's ban. It's their forum, they can do what they like. Do I agree with their actions...no, I do not. Then again, that is one reason why this forum exists. Life's too short to fill it with rules.

And lastly a reminder of our own list of "disallowed" dolls consists of:

1. Sex dolls and dolls/parts made specifically for the adult industry
2. Discussion, promotion or distribution of recast dolls (note, I do not ban the doll if you have one, just don't disclose what it is if you consciously bought it)

I think that's it. Big list, eh?

Dolls, after all, are meant to be fun

[Dark Angel]

1. I love this forum
2. That's a long list! Not sure I'll be able to remember and abide by it
3. That's all.

[mollym]

The Mirodoll issue is actually why I went outside DoA to the BJD hobby, after all these years. I saw the 'ban' and it seemed really odd to me. Why? A member of our local meetup group did a smart and adult thing. She e-mailed Iple House and asked them what was happening from their side. Their response was that they DID NOT want the collector community to become involved. Why? Because legit companies are now trying to ban together to combat the recaster that has been trademarking and copyrighting the work of artists and BJD casting houses. The mods of DoA blatantly invited other legit companies to publicly dogpile Miro doll while accepting financial sponsorship of their forum. When recasting has been suspected in the past, two dolls have been physically compared to check measurements and signs of tool marks. Did this happen? No, they took photos from others and compared, no measurements, no real physical comparisons. Did they contact either company to investigate? Nope.... They have good enough of a relationship to collect ad revenue but not enough of a relationship to maturely discuss collectors' concerns. Miro investigated the allegations of 3D work being copied, it's not a recast, it's a different animal all together. They were not pleased to find the method their 3D modeler used and pulled the line of the 1/4 bodies and is quietly recalling the bodies and giving replacements so owners are more at ease to share their dolls in their social collector circles. As far as the 70cm doll goes, it's a wild accusation. When I saw the comparisons, I immediately thought that Resin Soul and Miro doll were much more similar than either to Dolls town bodies. Apparently, from a source that has frequent contact with Miro doll, both companies used the same female human model to base their style of sculpt. It was a terrible mistake that I cannot understand, but as it was said by Greyhaunt, it's their forum and they can say and do whatever they please, even if what they say and do is slanderous, harms community relations and states that economically priced dolls are more likely to be at a lower price point due to intellectual theft. If that's not a slap to the face of collectors of modest financial means, I don't know what is. That simply is not true, production costs vary depending on regional cost of living, supplies and efficient production techniques. I know of collectors in the community that are now hesitant to support independent artists simply due to the fact that the artists' dolls are being cast by Miro doll.

After their statement, and the amount of time it has been part of their main banner, I lost a lot of trust in those moderators. I realize they are not professionals, just volunteers, but.... I expect that a conscious effort to communicate with company sponsors before making public accusations is reasonable and logical. I don't know if anything they claim is based on fact or simply the preferences of a few. I like the forum, it has a lot of resin doll specific information, I've never encountered a nasty member or had anyone offer harsh criticisms. Because it exists, I was brave enough to enter the hobby 4 years after being scammed in my first attempt to own a resin BJD. I found an entire group of people that are now personal friends. We regularly meetup, we welcome new members all the time, we've gone on road trips to BJD conventions and enjoyed the hobby for several years together. After much deliberation and hesitation, we formed a locals-only group on Facebook so we could have off-topic discussions, private Group Orders and share personal life details outside DoA. We kept it closed to protect each other from scammers as that was once a near-miss with one local individual. After the Miro doll statement, I advised that for the time, we simply ignore the issue and carry on as usual because I did not want anyone feeling bad or guilty for owning Miro dolls. I don't own them, but several of my friends do. The last thing I wanted to happen was any hen pecking.

Since this is an all-doll forum, I will briefly mention what this all brings to mind. Ever hear of a type of doll from a century ago called Boudoir dolls? These were cloth bodied dolls for adults. The majority of them were styled as adults and it also became a social hobby. Owners (primarily young women) would have regular meetups, discuss dolls and often do costuming and customization to their dolls. They were a great way to relax and make friends with others that likely also shared similar interests. What happened to these dolls was different companies and the collector community fighting among themselves. This company would make accusations towards that one or an owner or group of owners would hen peck another due to their doll of choice..... the hobby, social culture and ultimately the companies themselves quickly ceased to exist. Boudoir dolls are now remembered as a brief fad.... These dolls are sometimes part of antique collections, but the social culture is rarely mentioned. I would be very sad if that happened to resin BJDs, but I see history repeating itself.

It has strengthened my resolve to become more involved in the Doll Collector Community, not just the BJD circles. I joined UFDC (United Federation of Doll Clubs) as a member-at-large. My area does not have a proper doll club. The regional director has encouraged me to start one. I'm a prime candidate. I'm soon meeting another member-at-large in my area. I have a Doll Role Play forum, because I couldn't find one. Now, I just need members. I have the time.... I'm considering starting a Facebook group for regional collectors. I actually don't care much for Facebook, but it's a great way to communicate about hobby interests with people you would never meet another way. Members of the UFDC have concerns that the organization is at risk.... because the average age of a member is 50+ years old. I'm in my 30's.... I know many people collect dolls of all sorts, shapes and sizes. Everyone enjoys them differently, but much of the joy is very similar.

My only regret is that I did not find this forum sooner. The greatest joy after admiring and caring for my own collection is personal connections with others of the same passion. I've never had a welcome opportunity to share my collection with others. I've loved dolls since infancy. Growing up, I didn't know any other children that loved dolls as much as I did. They were often the only other little girls I had to play with. I wish I had known then that it was acceptable to enjoy my dolls as a junior collector even if my family pushed me to 'quit playing with dolls because I was too old'. Anything humanoid catches my eye, always has, be it a robot, puppet, mannequins, automata, etc... even though very few individual pieces give way to my desire (I call it doll lust) to bring them into my home and join my collection. Thanks for reading my long rant.... it's been pent up in my head for some time now.

[DollyKim]

I don't think this hobby will fall apart. Competition, faction, and in fighting is just a part of being human and any hobby. Having dealt with not being able to afford a Cabbage Patch Kid as a child I am determined personally to never keep someone out just for not having something. And if you don't have a dollieh yet we're terrible enablers here!

If you have some vintage boudoir dolls I think they're allowed to be posted on the board, mods can correct me if not, there's always the mixed sizes forum.

[Kirahfaye]

The only "adult" dolls not allowed are the kind used to..... unclothe.....

[mollym]

No, I don't own any vintage Boudoir dolls. I am more fascinated by the social culture that evolved around them while they were being made. Although I'm sure one will turn up eventually.... they tend to do that. I'm now convinced the dolls here are going on the internet and inviting friends to join the household, they've discovered a digital portal!!!! All the while convincing me I'm the one doing it. I'm onto them now! Joking!!!!

I'm not happy how the Miro doll fiasco is being handled. I suppose my expectations were too high of DoA. I'm glad that I did find you all, I'm so sorry I didn't years ago. I'm happier now after deciding to explore out side the BJD niche of the larger community of doll collecting. There are very few subjects that I enjoy to share and discuss. I like my job, but it's not a job that makes for polite discussions. People think the way I earn a living is 'gross and disgusting' but most give me a bit of respect for doing it. I can talk about dolls a lot, but it's not common for anyone to like dolls as much as I do, and even less common to enjoy it as much as an adult. Some people don't like dolls, they think my job is gross and it doesn't leave me with much to say to them. I don't have friends outside my professional field unless they want to hear about my dolls. When I find others that want to chat dolls, it's really exciting! I get to talk now! I'm really lucky my son latched onto Kens when he was young. I swear, I didn't push him. He just thought action figures and such were 'ugly' and had a troupe of Kens that would do antics like parachute out windows and go on adventures. It also kept him away from my few doll survivors from childhood.

I have very few antique/vintage dolls in my collection. I do like to see any and all types of dolls, mannequins, puppets and those elusive automata pieces. What I bring home is what I really like, once I don't enjoy them anymore, they have always found a new home with minimal effort, it's not a regular practice, but it happens on occasion. I never detract from my collection, but I've been known to make changes in my crew. I've had dolls since infancy. Very few survived the wrath of my mother's husband when I was young, and I still have the survivors. I've inherited a couple oldies that are incredibly fragile due to age. They were never made nor intended to survive the childhood of their original owners (two sisters) but they survived that, their son/nephew kept them until he was very old and gave them to his friend (my mother) before he passed away as they were important to him. My mother always knew that I would love dolls all my life and sent them home with me. I'm a terrible photographer, but I will soon add to the Dollieh Sanctuaries section and include the entire crew. Y'all have no idea how many are hanging around here, most hiding out in nooks and crannies.... I can't even guess how many I have... dozens is all I know. I prefer adult male dolls but the widest variety of those currently available are BJDs, so that's what got me started in the BJD hobby. I've been a doll enthusiast all of my life. Crazy about them as a little one. I had one that I would even try to hold while learning to crawl. The rules here are great and easy to follow. Probably the most simple rules I've ever seen. I don't blame anyone one bit for Rule #8 although it's not their fault the way they are designed, styled, displayed, used or marketed. I don't like the fact that they are labeled as dolls, but one can certainly own one and enjoy it just as any other. I 100% agree with all the rules, if I did not, I would have not asked to join the forum. On the other hand, IMHO anyone is free to enjoy their doll any way they choose as long as it does no harm. It's not those poor dolls' fault. I feel sorry for a lot of those dolls. Sorry for the long rant... other stuff that's been pent up in my head for a long time.